People respect rituals more than rules
According to Parbara Soalheiro, Mesa founder, “people respect rituals more than rules”. She and her wonderful team are inspiring organisations around the world with their problem-solving method, to design better working experiences for their teams, that generate innovative solutions in response to complex problems.
Bringing together external talent with internal stakeholders, Mesa is a process of collaborative creation, where the experts co-create with the owner of the problem. 5 days and 16 people. The method is based on a simple formula: “a leader at the head of the table to unlock people’s full potential, a small team with all the knowledge and skills needed to solve a problem and one mission — a clear reach point with which the whole team compromises with.” (Barbara Soalheiro)
I learned the Mesa method and got my certificate in 2020, and I recently interviewed Ligia Giatti, one of Mesa’s most exuberant and inspiring team members and top Mesa leader.
Tell me more about the attitude behind the MESA recruitment process!
L.G. — We really connect to the mission we have and let that mission tell us what we need. And then we break it into pillars of knowledge, that combine the skills with the context of that mission. We create pillars of knowledge for every position in a MESA, for every chair, including the employees joining from organisations.
So, it’s not about going out there and finding very innovative and creative people to solve a problem, but about finding the right people with the right knowledge and skills to solve that particular problem.
How many people from organisations do you usually have at the table?
L.G. — We need to guarantee every single piece of knowledge and skills necessary to solve the mission. At the same time, we want a small compact team to be more efficient. So I would say normally it is from 4 to 6 from the organisation and 4 to 6 from outside. We try not to go beyond 6 people.
What is the talent pool you go fish for, outside organisations?
L.G. — We don’t have a talent pool, which is interesting. We do have a network of people and we do know people around the world because Mesa has been a global organisation since day one. We are committed to finding the right skills and knowledge, there is no barrier when it comes to searching beyond your city or your country. So there is no pool of talent, but then of course, if we know a person that we worked with and is suitable for our current mission, we will bring them to the Mesa. But what we do is we really go after the people, I would say that Mesa curation process is a little bit like a stalker work 🙃
Mesa has been a global organisation since day one
L.G. — For example, right now I need to find a pillar — a person that is running a brand that is facing some problems communicating their product. It’s a very specific pillar. It needs someone who has experience leading a brand that faces these challenges in communication — can be that their product has too much sugar, or high salt, or soya, or is not environmentally friendly etc. and there are many of them around the world. But I need someone who brings to the table that knowledge! And at the moment, I don’t know anyone like that.
So what I do is I read a lot, I need to go on Google and search and read articles and find the people who wrote it. It’s a stalker with head hunting type of thing and when I find that person that I need, I find a way to reach out to them.
How do you manage the dynamics between the skills you need to solve the problem and the people who have the skills and come together to collaborate?
L.G. — I think that’s a question that people normally ask:
How the person actually brings their beliefs to the Mesa and how their beliefs further connect with the client’s beliefs?
L.G. — First of all, we only invite a person to the Mesa if we feel that person is completely connected to the mission. We sit with CEO’s, it’s not just freelancers we bring to the table, it can be someone from one organisation coming to the table for 5 days to solve the problem of another organisation — initially you think that’s crazy! But actually, what happens is when I call somebody and say: “hey I need you because I have this challenge and no one around the world can solve this better than you” (ex: because you accomplished it with your company, you created a communication format that really connected with your consumers and this teaches us about the future of communication), when you tell this to the person they became aware of the fact that they indeed are of high value to the mission and they agree to apply their knowledge to solve the challenge that will create an amazing solution.
It’s not just freelancers we bring to the table, there can be someone from one organisation coming to the table for 5 days to solve the problem of another organisation — initially you think that’s crazy!
So you bring people to the table from different organisations to solve the problems of their competitors?
L.G. — Yes, we do, because we believe in knowledge that comes from experience, not just talking about it. We are looking for doers. So people who did something, learned from and are willing to share their knowledge. Those who really take a seat and commit to designing amazing business models because they did that for their company one day in their lives.
In a Mesa, every person, every specialist we bring has a specific role, they represent a particular pillar of knowledge.
L.G. — When you look around the table, you look at the mission and you immediately understand: “Oh my God, I do have the right experience and skills and with this team here I can achieve a solution!”. So that person immediately feels the responsibility to deliver. There is no competition, no clash between people. It’s a team working together and understanding each other’s value.
For us, there’s no working for, it’s working with! My relationship with the owner of the problem is: “I work with you, we solve this together”. The same thing happens when the client looks at the Mesa and says: “I am working with these people” not, these people work for me. So during the 5 days at Mesa, the problem becomes everyone’s problem. Not just the clients’.
Who is leading the process?
L.G. — We sometimes choose leaders that have a better fit to the problem but it’s very rare, our mindset is we, as Mesa leaders, learn about the problem when we lead the Mesa — I, as a leader, need to know how to take the team through the 5 days, so I need to know the method and I need to be brave! Every time facing a different problem and navigating in the unknown by trusting the method and the talent we have: we only need the commitment to the solution.
Can you share with me a failure you guys had when putting together a Mesa?
L.G. — There was one Mesa I led where I clearly needed a very strong strategist, one connecting every single thing in the story. Because we ended up with 3 ideas that did not really match and then we were scared that we would not deliver… so we knew that we were missing someone and that’s the situation when a Mesa does not go right! Usually when a pillar is missing.
You can, during a Mesa, realise that you lack talent and immediately take action to bring it in?
L.G. — Yes, that’s the beauty. When you are a leader of a Mesa, you do your best to deliver.
If you would have a Mesa where you would have to deliver innovation in a company’s culture of work, what would the pillars be?
L.G. — If we would have to change the company culture of work, I would probably make us build something. Like a new product that is going to be the best translation of how this company will operate from now on. Let’s say we are working with a consumer goods organisation, what I would do is I would challenge them to create a new product that needs to translate their new culture. Maybe that product will be launched together with consumers. Or they will prototype it really fast and launch, and learn from the mistakes. That will require hiring new talent, they will have to move faster so their evaluation process will be different, their KPI’s will be different, they will need to reset their expectations and so on.
Where do you see creativity making a bigger impact in the future?
L.G. — To be honest, everywhere! And I believe everyone is creative. Every time, creativity has an impact. For example, with my clients who are more rigid and corporate and difficult to change, when you bring someone with this freedom of thinking, always unlocks something.
In these hard structures to change, creative people’s mindsets will impact.
How do you know which creative talent is suitable for your mission?
L.G. — I always ask them about their previous projects — “what did you do?”. But after I had a situation where the person I selected as a pillar did not deliver to their capacity, I went back through the process of selection and I realised I did not ask one significant question — “how did you do it? What was the process of delivering that solution?”. So I search, I reach out and I interview.
*Thank you, @LigiaGiatti for such a great talk and sharing your insights! Learn more about the method and get your certificate here
*This interview was video recorded.
